Reaction Edit - The Road Home

[0:00] Music.

[0:15] Babylon 5, for the first time. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the first time, not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin. And I'm Brent Allen. You know, Jeff and I are two veteran Star Trek podcasters who decided that we needed to correct a mistake. We didn't watch Babylon 5 back when it came out. And here we are 30 years later, revisiting, not revisiting, visiting this very old show to see how well they do something that you know we think all sci-fi shows should do and we were so captivated we fell so in love that we continued that journey with spinoff shows books and now the movies the final movie for the first time our note says for me to say and just like always we'll be searching for those messages but i'm going to change that up a little bit brent yeah for the last time uh-huh we're going to be searching for those messages those mirrors to society they're held up those things that science fiction can do better than almost anything else out there yeah sci-fi does this not just star trek right because it's not a star trek podcast never was let's get into this episode where we're gonna go watch this episode hey listen if you guys are joining us for the first time great time to be joining us welcome Every episode is somebody's first episode. What's getting ready to happen is Jeff and I are going to watch the movie Babylon 5, The Road Home.

[1:43] Right now, right now, if you're hanging out with us on YouTube, stick around because you're going to get to see Jeff and mine's reaction as we watch the video, the film, the movie, the thing. Yes, you're going to get to see our reaction as we watch the film. If you want to see the full unedited version of that reaction, head over to our Patreon page at patreon.com slash Babylon 5 first. You do the thing and I think you're telling me to do the thing. Well, I was doing this and I was like, oh, no, I'm supposed to say Babylon 5 first, not the other one. Like darn it i cued him stop stop all right all right here we go uh if you'd like to see the full unedited reaction you can head over to our patreon page patreon.com slash babylon5first if you're listening to us on a podcasting app we are going to meet you in the future here in just a few seconds we will have watched this movie and then we're going to share our first time reactions and we're also going to talk about any of the messages that we uncovered brent, let's take the first step on the road home let's do it.

[2:46] Oh it's good no no you know what i'm sorry i'm sorry the only thing that saves that is knowing that this is animated agreed because that looks like season one cgi oh i don't think it looks like season one i just think it looks very animated you know what i mean right right but like i would have sworn that this was like a live i i i know i've said animation but i was like wow that's really bad computer graphics there and i was like oh no this is supposed to be animated i'm sorry that's actually good like cartoony animation which is what we're looking for here right a proud moment a powerful moment is that luckily trying.

[3:26] Music.

[3:31] To place the voices i i'm just giving up because i know they didn't go for voice matching right like the one guy who got the style the essence the guy whoever's doing jakar's voice it sounded really good i'm sure we've heard delin somewhere i wasn't able to catch that i think she's the one that said we.

[3:50] They're waiting for us. You know, having seen Bruce Boxleitner very grayed out, seeing Sheridan, who's still dark-haired is. I'm not having this conversation. All right, just a quick check-in. Yeah. Where are you at on the animation style? I don't care. Okay. It's not my favorite.

[4:09] They look way off of their real-life counterparts. Agreed. Like, they just don't even come close to looking like their real-life counterparts. Um and the animation style looks honestly it looks hand-drawn not computer to me like this looks 2d hand-drawn to me that said i don't care like i'm good it's okay it's animated i like animation so that's fair how about you uh i'm stuck a little bit this reminds me of later 80s uh cartoons like some of the the heavier sci-fi almost heavy metal you know and something that's an earlier eighties, but yeah, some of that sci-fi ish animation that came out back then. And so, and, and a lot of that was not good. Right. And so I'm stuck. Like I'm in a place where I'm like, okay, I'm going to appreciate it, but I definitely have a call back to some of that eighties and nineties stuff that came out before you start again. Let's look at this picture. Okay. All right. Um, all right. Here's what I'm looking around the, the people that we're seeing here. Okay. The first person that your eyes get drawn to is this woman right in between Sheridan and delin it's either lockley or ivanova who do you think it is well that hairstyle that's got to be ivanova but it doesn't make sense it's not ivanova it's because but this is a scene we've seen before essentially this is objects at rest with sheridan and delin leaving the station interesting okay good i don't i don't think we got the sock conversation i don't think.

[5:39] Right. So, uh, right there, is that Richard Biggs? Is that, is that Dr. Franklin on, uh, just off to the right side of Dylan's head? Maybe, but see, he would, wouldn't they be, he would be, if he was, if that was, if that was, um, Franklin, he would be in the B five uniform, not necessarily the earth force uniform at this point. That's right. You know, it should be, is this Lita over here on the side? No. Cause she would be gone. Right. Is this Jakar over here? This Narn looking at the Narn over there? Because he's with Lita. He's with Lita. So there's no, I don't think there's anyone who's like a character. I think this is Lockley right next to the, to the Narn. Look at the Pac-Man. The Pac-Man all looks really good. Right there next to Lockley. It looks really good. There's a Drazi that looks awful over there though. Like right next to, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[6:26] So interesting. Interesting. There's a lot of Earth Force uniforms in that crowd. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Just, we stopped it. Wanted to analyze it. I want to say, I'm soaking it in, Jeff. Soaking it in. Well, and I think just, I mean, even looking at it, like this is a really good, it's a different shot of this part of Babylon five. We didn't get before, but you've got that bridge up there and that's where he gave his big, you know, his big speech. And you know, this is what we're going to do. We're going to go blow to people up. And it's even got that thing in the back that looks like it kind of ramps up and go like, this is a really good render. A good setup. I know we've only had like maybe three lines from her, but how are you feeling that the voice actress is doing for Dylan? Initially i was i was very off put yeah but it felt forced like the accent felt very forced in what she was doing but in her interacting with sheridan i'm feeling a little bit of it so i too soon to tell.

[7:19] Okay all right can we please get back into it this this dude right here the blonde guy right here yeah i just he looks like johnny freaking storm you know what i mean like and he's wearing mass effect npc outfit oh there you go those eyebrows dude that's just i mean that's that please don't let that be a van of a don't let them have done a van of a like that i do remember seeing the render of the station i saw a picture and i loved it and i'm so looking forward to this shot right here i even just said an interstellar news network special report i only need you dylan oh, you're my universe the brightest star in my sky they're still the best couple in all of sci-fi i love you too jeff's like it's getting unlockly man like now get ready and i brought you a present i was a lot more excited when they consummated than i was when this group oh she got a socks oh here's the timey thing all right here we go tachyon surge.

[8:32] We're on a troll. Jumpgate looked better in Legend of the Rangers. Wow, it looks very She-Ra. Thank you for coming, Mr. President. I was told that Sir Tidey Lend, Satai DeLib. She's still Satai?

[8:53] He's like cycling back in time by seconds right now. Or he's seeing the future. And then coming back to reality. Yeah. Either way, he's like a record skipping. But just skips once. John Sheridan, no stranger than time travel, immediately knew what was going on. Okay. The president grabs his heart, goes over, and only one person rushes to him. And only rushes to say, are you okay? You should get help. Everybody's just staring at him. What kind of energy does this facility use? It was in the release. Nobody reads press releases. It's true. What's the damned energy source? Here it is, here it is. Tachyon. There it is! There it is! Oh, crap. You got it. High five. When we travel in time. Excuse me, Jeff. Stop! Great waves. It's Atheris. It's Atheris. Where would that end? Why go ahead? You can become a starting time unless there is anchor. These will keep you from drifting but also protect you. Okay, that voice as well. Yes. Terrible harm. You have to turn off the system. Once it starts, it cannot be terminated until it reaches full. Then get me out of here before I before you want.

[10:17] This is from war without end uh-huh you've seen this part you might be so dead on with just traipsing through the moments okay okay hold on i want to track what's what's happening okay so sheridan in war without end has his little anchor, And he gets hit with tachyons that we didn't know where they came from. Correct. Right. And what this is telling us is that the tachyons actually came from this moment in the future from the Minbari energy thing and hit Sheridan, who has this leftover tachyon disruption from when he experienced it at War Without End. And so now it's causality looping back on itself, which I love. I love that. And so that, because he had this experience, that's what makes him susceptible to the tachyons. Because now we're dealing with time. You actually now have an effect preceding a cause. Hello, Samantha Carter.

[11:18] You have the effect preceding the cause, right? So is that what you're tracking as well? Okay. Yep. Yeah. So it links everything together. And we're also just getting that. I think this is also serves as the reminder that Sheridan has been trapped in time before. Right. So it's or linking those things or this is the first time he's been trapped in time because that's how time works. Right. Trapped in time for the first time. You know what? Sometimes sometimes I just like when sci-fi makes me sci-fi. Like just make me nerd for a little bit. It's OK. Like I don't have to do the messages. Just let me nerd. OK, you ready? Let's do it. All right, let's go. The land is the only one going after the president of the Interstellar Alliance. I thought I could just stand here and do anything. Delenn, no!

[12:08] Music.

[12:17] That's going to be Franklin. It's got to be. Is the methane residue they leave behind. There you go. Old Franklin too, Jeff. Yep. Professor. Don't panic. Don't. Whatever school he's teaching at has Numbari students. Run, run, run, run, run.

[12:39] Find Zathras. Zathras. I'd rather be annihilated. Which one? Find Zathras. not no no yeah you need that that's the one you need that i even think about him because after zafras he's gonna be in trouble agitation might hasten the time jumps now you tell me, so stay calm i told him he jumped 18 years instead of 23 oh couldn't bear to tell him that he died three years ago he knows he's gonna die any idea where or when he's going none at all Wow. That's a weird... That was an entirely unnecessary thing, but... I think so, yeah. It works as just a shout-out. You and I were talking about when is this? Where is this in that piece, so... John? Is it Dad? They put his dad in here. Dad? Yeah!

[13:35] Oh, I love that. I thought about you and Mom and how much I loved you and this place. And it was like I could feel which way to go. I did. So I followed that feeling all the way home. There it was i followed that feeling all the way home so we just we just got told this is the broadcast thing right tell us what's going to happen then it's going to happen and then we'll debrief what happened but he says in there uh right i was stuck in the corn and i just you know i just remembered how much i loved my mom and dad and i followed that feeling so now we're going to fast forward he's gonna remember how much he loves delen and he's gonna follow that feeling and that's how he's gonna find his way out i'm gonna make a prediction okay the end of this film.

[14:22] His literal road home is going to be through the corn maze he's going to go on this journey and he's going to come back to his corn maze whether it's at this moment or some other moment in whatever point in time and he's going to have to he's going to physically be in the corn maze having to follow his feeling out and at the end of that is when he'll blip back into time and get restuck he'll come out instead of this scene with the house we'll have a scene of babylon five no No, Mimbar-y. Mimbar. The Mimbar power plant. That's what I would think. Or whatever. But I think in this thing, Babylon 5 is home. Except his new home is now on Mimbar. But it's our home. But Dillon's on Mimbar. And that's what this movie is doing. It's our road. But Dillon's on Mimbar. All right, let's see what happens. Hey, let's see what happens. But not then. Because then. When will then be now, Jeff? Soon. We've written that joke before, but it's a good one. I don't care. It's interesting. We're going to a different time, but not necessarily. For a long while. After that the places we go in once a week to get lost on purpose i love you dad he said it ready said it said the thing finally you know what that is jeff that is you and i time traveling around telling jms that he has to say the words to say the freaking thing man yeah um you're about to jump again dude yeah or something's coming for you it's following you through the time Yep, caught in the time thing with him. It's Sauron!

[15:51] You know, it's funny. I'm pretty sure, as a full-grown adult, that Khorne is taller than he is. Now where the hell am I? Where are we, Jeff? Is this Mars? It's got to be Mars. But he's breathing, barely breathing. Zahadu! Zahadu's planet. Yeah, yeah, Zahadu's planet. Zahadu's planet. Zahadu. That's what I'm trying to say. He'll be there with the Icarus. He's going to see the unearthing. Oh, good call. I guess they have a breathable atmosphere there on Zahadu. Which I guess we do. Anna! Get back to base right now. Like I said, you cannot change the past, John. Dude. We did not.

[16:34] They did not swim like this. I remember, I don't remember when it was. It might have been in lines of communication when we first met the Drock, but it was at some point. I remember guessing they were going to create some race of shadows so we could have like an actual enemy that we saw and they could do battles and stuff. We never did. And I wonder if that was like a budgetary limit. You know, we don't have the technology, we don't have the money, whatever. And I wonder if this is just like trying to bridge that gap. Like, hey, there's also all this other shadow stuff that went on. We just showed you the big capital ship stuff. Or these shadows are different? I think so. Keep resending on short range as long as we can. That's Amanita. We need to get everyone off station. Don't tell me. Tell them.

[17:19] What is this, Jeff? This is new. This is not. Yeah, this isn't what happens. We've never gotten a close-up of a shadow ship like that before. This is alternate timeline stuff, I think, at this point. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, dude, they're toast. They got nothing against the shadows at this point. It's the launch sequence. I love that launch sequence, man. Just flings them out. But if you're in charge during all this, then this must be some kind of an alternate timeline. Doesn't matter. We have to get our people out, or they'll end up just as dead in this timeline as they be in yours. He's right. Right. Absolutely right. I don't care if it's alternate or not. This is my time. Do you know what a last stand is? Yes. I like this Sinclair. Yeah. This is a Sinclair who's very, very confident in his command. Frankly, it might... It's probably the best Sinclair we've seen. Is there any way we can stop them at close quarters? Yeah, Sheridan's not reacting to them like they're different, so I think this is just like the other Shadow stuff we didn't get. Dude, the station self-defense weapons, man. We didn't get enough of that in the show. Which I understand because it had to cost a fortune. But you do it once and just replay the scene. Hashtag Stargate is you. We saw this.

[18:37] This is the other timeline that we saw in the video. This is Babylon 5. We are under attack. We need ships to pick up survivors. This is the future that could be, they said, right? Yep. If you can hear my voice, we need help. From Babylon Squared. To save them. Yeah, Babylon Squared, if they didn't do all the stuff. They're all over the place. They're killing us.

[19:04] Punch him in the face. Right? Do shadows have an exoskeleton? I think so. Like, if you punch him in the face, it wouldn't hurt him, right? Because they have the armor. Or would it? Like, can you just punch them? Remember Will Smith in Independence Day? Yeah. Like, when he got inside the suit, he just punched him and knocked the dude out. Like, what do you want? Well, in stormtroopers, you punch a stormtrooper, it knocks him out. And you saying that, though, just made me, I'm connecting some dots on this. So, I'm like, oh, my God, shadow foot soldiers. What is this? We saw these shadows. these are the shadows that killed kosh these are the shadows that were going around with morden all the time right so this isn't totally out of nowhere no but the the the overwhelming number like because we saw like we saw these same shadows crawling over the planet going into the hole right when we when we got to zahadoom we saw we we yes these look like the shadows we have seen but what we just so many more just so many more and but we never saw them on a field of battle with an advancement coming towards them yeah you know and you know i could imagine that taking a lot of people out i i'm okay like it makes sense it actually makes total sense to me yeah yeah it's like oh the shadows are awful because they have these big ships that just blow stuff no they're doing a lot more than that yeah yeah it's actually a lot more like the reapers There's some math effect.

[20:30] Jakarta Edita! using his neurons was quite unnecessary we are agreed that we're in season one babylon five time frame yes why are lead and jakar doing anything together right now they had an interaction in where he asked he asked for her to to make babies with him and then they didn't talk again until season five and they told us that they didn't talk again until season five and that she wasn't on the show she wasn't on the station right which she got pulled in alternate alternate timeline i'm just saying like this what we're seeing here is what we know as end of season five in this universe happening four years too soon yeah and why would season one jakar offer to sacrifice himself for anybody right i mean his people yes but not if there's other people too right unless this is a lead-in jakar from yay another alternate timeline that got pulled into this one maybe i'm gonna go with that as my head canon to make this work oh just help me pull the damn switch.

[21:33] Music.

[21:48] And this was sleeping light, oh that looks cool yeah dude it always looks cool when you blow up your hero ship, like this is Captain Elizabeth Lockley to anyone receiving on Epsilon that's Tracy Scoggins come on draw don't shoot us down afterward basically just don't shoot us down okay, they're talking to each other now we're droids it's a very battle droid okay come on so far might be the lamest part of the whole movie to me and that's you know what if that's the lamest part of the whole movie that's not bad yeah things change since first that met the one now he is lost in time and lost in that i do not say even now many issues with copyright, is that correct Oh, no, no, no, no. Great machine. Replicate.

[23:06] That was incredible that was incredible jms jms well done my friend well done beautiful that was great, oh man oh editing note get this clip and put it out on the socials, oh my word that was good replication system has been very busy uh-oh behold how many how many jeff so the official plural of zathras is zathri.

[23:46] You have heard of big bang yes this will be big silence the end of all you know i just came here fred so sorry i just i have to enter interlope on this one the concept that they're talking about here i totally get i'm with them right the taking it and spinning it to make it it to to affect the story there is the entire fiction that comes along with it yes right that's the stretch because there's there's it it's almost like i'm going to take this line that i got from a scientist, and then I'm going to extrapolate all this other stuff, not being a scientist. You know what I mean? It's kind of like, no, no. Also we can't prove it so i can't tell you you're wrong yeah it's like okay i mean if this is the way you're gonna roll with it at least you're laying out how we're gonna roll with it yeah and you know it it quantum physics only suggests this it doesn't tell us that so whatever anyway.

[24:50] But sorry it's yeah but science fiction so it's okay so you know it's hard for doctors to watch medical shows sometimes exactly i'll leave it there all right here we go quantum probabilities bend to your quantum perspective shadow was great part of your life interesting you are drawn to what you feel drawn by your that is jeff i i'm fully going to congratulate jms here one of the problems i have always had with alternate reality timelines is the way that that whole idea works is of all the ultimate of all the different variations that you could have out there of timelines very few of them would actually be super close to where you are oh they'd be so different they'd be so different so getting into science fiction where we find all of these ones that are like ours it putting that in there that because this is your reality those are ones that that you get drawn to and and the observer affects the observe so you pull those right into you that i like that it makes a lot of sense any science behind that whatsoever but i love the explanation i love yeah i've never heard that before i love it i love it i'm gonna run with it i want to say it makes sense to me that's real science is what that is.

[26:18] Sure the best way to have somebody stay calm is to keep yelling at them stay calm works all the time, no one listens to zathras, that guy did a great job with zathras uh-huh earth or minbar earth anyone there over here captain sheridan oh yolando out of uniform i see They're going to destroy Earth? A Vorlon planet killer is moving into position. So they decided to use something that will take less energy because it's only one-fourth the size. Mass driver, hurling the moon. It's one-sixth the size, not one-fourth. Sorry. JMS, you get the X-Best right here. Make sure that he's...

[27:05] Music.

[27:18] You know what? Considering JMS's history with He-Man, She-Ra, real Ghostbusters, and that was his animation day, this makes all the sense in the world that this is the animation style they use. Cool. Stay back!

[27:31] Music. Of course it's going to hit Florida. Of course it is. now the moon is apart, it's not how it works even I know that that's literally how planetary bodies come together that's how planetary bodies work stuff like that although something of that I don't know what, speed the moon was coming in at right true, great council we're at the end we're at the empress, how many times are we going to say that there cannot be the observed that is the secret for now you are that observer so nothing is out there until we go look at it, everything dies yes everything is possible and that is the glory and wonder of mortality.

[27:32] Don't look at me!

[28:48] Music.

[28:54] It's kind of an a-hole move right there on Jakar's part, man. Just speak plainly. Whatever it is Jakar is representing. Yeah. Uh-oh, where are we now, Jack? Beyond the Excalibur. That would be cool. But he can't, though. Warner Brothers doesn't have rights to Crusade stuff. Okay, there's Zocalo. Lanier. What if Lanier and Veer were both having a drink right there? Yes. Oh, now he's going to talk to himself. That's season one.

[29:32] Oh, no, it's season two. Because it's him. You're right. This just gets better and better. Do you consent to the scan? Yes. Hey, ask for consent. There you go. This might feel a little funny. So did Lita just see her own death? She might have seen a couple of them. You never. Had the Shadow War? Not yet. Look at his uniform. Although Sinclair just did. Coming up on two years now. Why? He said his name is Zathras. Works for the Great Machine. Yeah. No one listened to Sheridan. Ah! Focus on what you were thinking when first shift happened. Stephen said the same thing. But I don't remember. Zathras thinks you do. Follow the feeling. And so does she. How much I loved you. And this place. And it was like I could feel which way to go. There it is. And we hope... Oh. Oh, hold on. That was incredible.

[30:44] Alone. His anchor is Dylan. Yep. You are not alone. I apologize for that. We told her great danger. They're the same. They're connected. They also transcend time and space. Time and space ever since. Never giving up. Never surrendering. Never gonna give you up. No. Never give up. Never surrender. That is not copyrighted. Maybe the Grabthar's hammer. Maybe, yeah, that part. Powerful force in the universe. No, all you need is love. All you need is love. You know what? She is the one. This is where she goes bad, and she's like, Actually, I will destroy you all. Follow my siren song. And nothing shall go wrong. Dude, Delent's a Flargan batting.

[31:39] Music. They're gone. He's not wrong. Love is a powerful thing. Wow. Never chrysalis. I was going to say, Sheridan wasn't around for this to learn. He's putting his own life at risk. Repairs are almost finished. Anytime now. Why are you always so hostile that was all three ship station commander? Uh-huh. No. Does he have a red eye? Dr. Franklin good. I have a rather ugly growth that needs to be removed standing beside me. Talk to the wrist. That Dr. Franklin looks good. Yeah. Agreed. Another time Londo. That was good. That sounded like.

[31:47] 12-year-old Jeff showed up for a second. Calm. Let's go!

[32:35] Music.

[32:50] All right brent jeff we just watched the road home we did we are home we made it through, what uh what are your first thoughts on it you know jeff i was realizing in the middle of watching this that you and i i don't know if this is an advantage or disadvantage all right okay we are in a different place with this than the first ones the the fans who watch this during the p10 days or even the ones who caught up you know in the intervening years they waited years and years to get something Babylon 5 goes offline occasionally you get a little movie here and there you get this little blip of crusade and that was kind of fun for you know the six months that it lasted and then you know you get a you get a pilot we're going to try another pilot see if we can't get another show okay that doesn't work out we're going to get this this thing straight to dvd thing with lost tales and that oh yeah well they're kind of screwing stuff around so that's not going to work out you know is there going to be a reboot is there going to be this hey we got this this thing super huge anticipation which frankly jeff can only give everybody expectations of what they want to see and then jms is going to come in and he's not going to give them what they want because they have their expectations and.

[34:01] He's going to put in the show that he does unable to meet everybody else's unspoken expectations and i imagine in in many ways this was probably fairly disappointing for a lot of fans okay you know just just just by that nature like it's so hyped up so whatever so everything for it ideas of what it could be and and and their idea you know what people would blame me for uh it didn't meet their expectations not what you thought it was gonna be yeah so you didn't like it and you judged it right like i can imagine that's the case all right i hope that people were able to also set that aside when they saw what it was and be able to interact with it on, on its own terms for what it was. Mm-hmm.

[34:46] Um that being said you and i just rolled right into this yeah everything's fresh it's a part of the deal we knew that we were watching babylon 5 a matter of an hour of hours ago you know relatively exactly exactly so you and i don't have the anticipation for this film that they did you know i didn't have time to build it up in my head and for many like i said i can imagine this is a disappointment um that said from my perspective in my timeline my reality i enjoyed this yeah i enjoyed it a lot and and ultimately this felt like the perfect cap on the franchise as a whole or two guys who started 30 years too late and ran through the whole thing to let this be the punctuation mark at the end this is not the sentence you know what i mean this is this is.

[35:45] Not the meat of what babylon 5 was this is the punctuation mark at the end and it felt perfect to me was it this phenomenal amazing film that's gonna launch everything no it's not was it a fun romp through time yeah but that's it was a little bit more than that a little bit different than that this this was i don't want to say letter to the fans love letter to the fans i always feel like it's kind of cheesy but this was it was good it was it was it was perfect for what it was and i thoroughly enjoyed this how about you that's really good perspective on it because i think yeah it would be i would take it much different if i hadn't seen anything new and you know over a decade you're coming about a love letter to the fans or something like that you know it's one of the things you and i've talked about with um.

[36:37] That's not a reference. We talked about with Star Trek Lower Decks. Yeah. It is a love letter to the fans. And it's effective because it's not written by the people. It's written by fans, you know. And it's not even a love letter to the fans. It's actually a love letter to the franchise. And I agree. That's not what this was by any means. But what I almost think it might have been was a love letter to himself. What you and I know, what you and I know, and we'll talk about here in a couple of weeks having read becoming superman is uh joe straczynski went through literal hell to make this thing happen and that culminated right in a title card at the end of an episode that we watched a couple months ago you know hey to those who didn't believe right right but there's so much more to it than that he i mean he literally put his life on the.

[37:30] Line for, for the, for this show, for the story to be told and for it to come back and not be a fun romp through time, but in an examination of what he put out there. Right. And not like a deep examination, but just like, Hey, look at all this stuff that we created. Look at this massive universe with depth and lore and complexity and science fiction that, that I created. And it's amazing. And not only is it amazing on its own, but the ideas, the concepts, the, the characters, the characters that I created are strong enough that they can exist in any time, space, or place. I think this was, and you know, not in a, not at all in a, in a, in a negative way, but this was a self-congratulatory, uh, exploration by JMS of like, look what I did. And for you, the people who enjoy this, I want you to enjoy this with me. It wasn't just him, right? He's like, I did this and I'm so proud of myself and it's awesome. And you are a part of this and I want to share it with you. Overall, it was okay. It's okay. If I'm being super honest, I may never watch this again.

[38:49] It's okay. It's fun. But it wasn't bad. It wasn't whatever. But if I had waited over a decade to see something Babylon five and I saw this, I can a hundred percent see where there'd be disappointment for people. I would make sense. But I also have to imagine they did really well because so many people wanted to see it. You know, soak in anything that you give us. That's Babylon. I'll tell you one thing. I'm sorry. I'll tell you one thing that this film absolutely proves to me. Is it kind of your point? it proves that there are existing aspects of the babylon five universe that we have not explored yet, mm-hmm yeah yeah and i don't just mean oh there's this crusade and what comes next no no no no within what we've already explored where did that possible future go for go in that video that we saw of anava we saw it here this was that story in in some ways you know um.

[39:44] I don't know that this was meant or designed to Kelvin timeline the Babylon 5 universe. I agree. You know what I mean? To set up an alternate future or alternate reality. So now we explore things in that reality without having to affect the prime universe. I don't know that it meant to do that because at the end we get Sheridan and D'Lynn. D'Lynn hasn't chrysalis. They haven't woken up the shadows. All that sort of stuff, you know? I don't know that that's what this was meant to do. I think in many ways, if I, if I'm reading the tea leaves, right.

[40:27] Cause this would have come out before the writer's strike, I think, or maybe right as the right, whatever. But Warner's is interested in a reboot for Babylon five and bringing something back, regardless of your feelings of that, they've, they've been interested in it. So I think in some ways there's a little bit of a, Hey, do you still have an audience? Go to the balloon. Let's let's do something and see what your audience is, see if the audience is there. And so that's that feels like that's what this is. And whatever comes next is not going to come based off of this, you know, but it does set up some interesting possibilities for comic books, other future animated stuff. If you want to go down that rabbit hole, you don't have to. But if you want to, you could. It creates the mirror universe. Right. And you know what? Here we're making references here, so I'll hit them. But it creates that mirror universe what we know is in the star trek world in comic books there's all these little mini series of you know voyager in the mirror universe and the enterprise d and it's just fun they don't mean anything they're just fun it's a place to tell a story and this absolutely created that for those other things but i think like on your point of more stories to be told within what exists you and i have talked about a number of times and even here on this program that Babylon 5 is the story of Londo Malari. Right. What this postulates or presents is that it's the story of Sheridan and Delenn.

[41:53] So multiple times has that relationship pulled Sheridan out from the depths, the depths of Zaha Doom, the depths of this time thing. And the movie ended with the two of them together having zero romantic connection at all, just two co-workers and with their relationship beginning to bud it's like whatever the reality you're talking about alternate sheridan and delin yes yeah non-chrysalist delay right non-goateed sheridan but yeah it's like regardless of the reality they are two forces that come together and those two forces together literally change the galaxy right i have a criticism though okay and you and i talked about this during the run of babylon five and it really i was thinking this the entire way through hmm so sheridan gets hit with these tachyon things he starts blipping through time right he starts blipping through time to look in through time love is the thing that brings you home all of a sudden there's this thing that's chasing him and turns out it's delin that's chasing him and she is what pulls him back in right yeah.

[43:06] But still, after all this time, Dylan is shunted as Sheridan's wife as she's still kind of off to the side as Sheridan's like she's almost in his shadow still a little bit. You know what I mean? Because remember, like there was good, strong strength Dylan.

[43:26] But the further we got into things, the more Dylan just became Sheridan's wife. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, and it's still showed here that she's just Sheridan's wife, you know?

[43:43] But she was the reason that he got brought home. She was the catalyst. She was going after. I don't want to diminish, diminish that. Thank you. I kept saying dictate or delineate. I was like, this is not the right word. I don't want to diminish that. um but still like dylan wasn't a part of the story she wasn't a part of the adventure she wasn't doing you know i i mean my god jeff you know there's one man who has ever destroyed a binbari ship and he is behind me and you are before me if you fear for your life be somewhere else like oh my god that kind of dylan you know the oh my gosh like that's that's i just want that to land and it's going to be so hard because mira has unfortunately passed me on the rim now and and i don't know that anybody's ever going to be able to replace or replicate that and move that forward and that's okay um but that if i had a mate not even a major if i had a criticism like but but i think i i think that's a meta that's not a criticism of this movie like you said that's babylon five it was in the story of babylon five they even in the open they even basically said they were going to do this. Veteran of the Shadow War and now Interstellar Alliance President John Sheridan is accompanied by his wife, who's also a veteran of the Shadow War. Right.

[45:03] Right there and it's so disappointing you know she becomes president you know she does how about leader of the rangers exactly until za naroon right until za right it was her that did that right right but that being said i was gonna say that being said let's talk about the film we actually got instead of the one we could have got let's do that yes all right let's let's just run through it real quick um the voice acting okay yes all right and specifically the voice acting of our actors who um have had to be recast um how did you think they do let's let's just run through how do you think uh the person who did dylan did i think she was okay she captured the overall vibe i felt that she had an overly affected accent though like that was a little distracting to me how did you i did i thought she did great for for the idea of don't replicate her voice just replicate the character i thought i thought that particular character did great okay what do you think uh franklin he was fine he was he was fine uh for the the majority of what we got for franklin he was very old franklin so the fact that it would be different um you know richard biggs just he had this this uh almost droning side to his voice it was very commanding and very authoritative.

[46:27] And I don't know that we got that here, but, um, you know, all that could be mitigated by, uh, age and wisdom as he goes forward. So what'd you think? Well, what'd you think Garibaldi?

[46:39] Garibaldi, it was, uh, my nose was lowly was okay. Sounded like him some of the time. Didn't really get enough of him to even, like, get a view into his character.

[46:50] How about Sinclair? I liked Sinclair a lot. This was my favorite Sinclair. Yeah. I liked the voice. I liked the animation. I liked the character.

[47:00] We were very harsh on, unfortunately, Michael O'Hare in the beginning of our view of this. But even once we were made aware of his struggles, I was very hard on the character of Sinclair.

[47:15] This is what that character was supposed to have been yeah more commandee like i really like he just yeah this guy i agree we saw a war hero sinclair in this movie who perhaps didn't have the ptsd or or was like getting actively treated like he was he wasn't sitting around playing with a yeah right trying to kill him there so he had hurt or whatever let's see who else were we missing we had that that that um jacar jacar this was the worst one to me agreed strong the voice The voice was not anywhere close, which is okay, but there was none of the gravitas that Andreas would bring to a line. A hundred percent. What I feel like is that the voice actor affected gravitas in a way that it sounded put on and fake and emotionless. Like what capsules brought was he like made things big and heavy and it spoke to like the core of your being right this guy was reading lines yeah as a voice actor now that i want to be fair no one no one is going to step in the shoes of andreas katsulas and do it justice you're just you're not going to so whoever that was that was brave enough to do that exactly well.

[48:37] Maybe dumb enough because here's the thing i'm a voice actor and i'm like okay here's the parts, okay so i already got sinclair cass so you've got jacar and londo yeah i'm out not gonna do it not even gonna try it well your only comfort is at least they're not gonna see my face exactly they may not know can i use a pseudonym in the credits because i want to be attached i'll take the paycheck yeah but that's about it i'm going by another stage name altogether um just i mean just out of out of respect honestly like there's no way i'm coming i'm coming close then the one we didn't talk about who i think was the best of the voice acting was zathras he was okay but i thought zathras was better did you really mm-hmm.

[49:19] Zothrys, I think was the best, but shared in literally ruining the joke. He's just stepped on the whole thing. Right. But talk about not matching the voice, but matching the style, getting the character right. Nailed it. Nailed it. Perfect. Nailed it. So great. So great. We talked a little bit during the recording. And so we'll do it here for posterity sake about the animation style. Yeah. You nailed it. You nailed it. You called it out. It's very late eighties. It feels very, it feels hand-drawn 2d celled very late eighties, which kind of makes sense, right? Because JMS is animation days was back during the late eighties with he man, She-Ra, uh, real ghostbusters. Let's let's, let's do a little thing really quick because you brought that up during the watch and it made total sense. But also earlier when we were on min bar, I made the comment. I'm like, wow, this has strong She-Ra vibes.

[50:20] Did you see anything that would have had real ghostbuster vibes or he-man like i'm wondering if like maybe he peppered some things in like intentionally i didn't notice anything but now i kind of want to go back and look just to see i think the eye that was chasing you know was delen through the whole thing that's kind of real ghostbuster the the dude that i called out is johnny storm yeah there was a group shot okay for the audio folks out there there was a group shot that jeff and i stopped the the image on and we were kind of going around trying to pick out who was who there was one dude who was white as all get out with the.

[50:53] Blonde hair and i said he looks like johnny storm that guy right there looks like he could have been out of real ghostbusters one of the characters from real ghostbusters yep he had that kind of look to him i don't think anybody really had the the he-man body type or any aesthetic from that but yeah that was an interesting thought we saw a real different view of the shadow war in this you know i mean the the whole thing revolved around the shadows in the shadow war for quantum reasons but we talked about this also but we saw shadow foot soldiers yeah on mass like a huge infantry of them uh which was a little uh it was a little um jarring to me as a viewer because it's not anything that we really got uh not on a field of battle we saw the shadows and kind of on mass like running around zaha doom like we we saw right that was we saw him with mr morden they went and we saw the couple of them but we never saw on a battlefield in formation perfect lines running forward with shields and almost the phalanx type thing like we never got that and i i never had that impression of the shadows that that's how they operated that they operate because the shadows always operated by getting other people to fight wars they instigated it with others they didn't necessarily always do it themselves although they certainly went around stirring crap up too but um so that that was a little jarring.

[52:20] But also I get it.

[52:23] It makes sense. We can do it here for cost-effective measures. Make it happen. It reminded me. So in the very first mass effect game, we get introduced to the Reapers and I've talked about the parallels between the shadows and the Reapers on here before, but they're really painted as this existential threat that like transcends our understanding of warfare and battles. Like they're going to, they're going to attack us in a way that we can't even imagine. Fast forward to mass effect three. and all of a sudden we have all these monsters and foot soldiers and stuff that are fighting ground battles on these different planets and it's a little jarring at first but then also you realize like you can't have an existential video game you know that's like fighting the concept you have to do something i feel like this is a similar thing in one in one hand it made sense in that like you're going to fight some conventional battles uh there are these little shadow people that are shadows doing stuff but much like the mass effect three reapers.

[53:23] Demystified the mass effect one reapers i feel like knowing there's foot soldiers with like these acharidian shields from three below like they kind of demystified the shadows as well right and they make sense both we learned a few things jeff yeah well like we we have because we've had this conversation i feel like we had this conversation more than once during the run of the show but we now know canonically the plural of zathras is zathri and that zathri are connected across time and space that's a little weird that's a whole lot of zathri out there lots that's a whole lot of them but the great machine replicating them at an alarming rate we should be worried we made i i i tracked them we made eight time jumps.

[54:10] Okay. During the whole time. So the first time jump was to the future. What we learned was 23 years into the future with Dr. Franklin post. That was the first time that was the initiation of the drinking game called the observer affects the observed, which by the way, I'm wasted from that game. Oh my God. Time. Number two, we went into season two of Babylon five on earth with Sheridan's dad, which we talked about it during the thing he said the words to his dad yeah finally finally i love you dad i love you dad say the words folks say the words and time to jump number three went to zahadum with the icarus he saw the shadows awaken and time four uh this is our first alternate timeline we went to season one babylon five we saw babylon squared as if they did not go and get Babylon four and make all this stuff happen. So we saw that piece time. Number five, but specifically with that in Babylon squared, we saw a video of that reality. And, and we were just told it was a possible future. If X, Y, Z didn't happen. Well, it's not just a possible future. It's actually an alternate reality. And we went to that alternate reality. It's the whole, the multiverse concept, right? That it's not a possible future. It's a future in a different place, time, space, all that stuff.

[55:39] Time number five was when we saw Zathras. We were on Babylon 5 with Lockley, and they went down to the Great Machine. In six, six was a very alternate ending. This was on Earth with Londo and Ivanova when we lost the Shadow War. And they used a mass driver to throw a moon that in this reality was a quarter the size of Earth, not a sixth, and threw it into the planet. Yeah. And then the planet exploded. Which doesn't happen. Not usually. Time number seven was interesting. It was almost, it wasn't necessarily a time or place. He just kind of went up to the rim, you know? Yeah, that was very, it was very weird. It was very, we're in limbo. Yes. It felt Matrix Revelations, or was that the third one? Whatever the third, Matrix 3, when he talks to the architect. Like you go to this weird in-between place, The architect tells you all the stuff that's going down in this place. They just happened to be in this like almost liminal space with Jakar, you know, the manifestation of Jakar, uh, telling him, I mean, well, no, I guess that's not a good example. Yeah.

[56:49] In that time I did have, I had a thought that I took down. I'm curious what you think. I get why they had it be Jakar, you know, the relationship. And you know, if that was a Katzalas doing that, it would have been amazing. Should that have been Laurie N? Yes. Thank you. Yes, that's exactly who that should have been. And then the final time jump. And by the way, he confirmed for us that Jakar and Lita did reach the rim. Yes, that they actually went beyond the rim. Saw what was going on out there. Yeah. Which means the Jakar that we saw in the movie that shall not be named had been beyond the rim and back. There you go. Which is another reason they're not like that movie.

[57:31] Are there any of those time jumps you want to talk about or dive into at all? Not not necessarily just because it was the story but the one the i there's an aspect of it i do want to jump into the one where we went to the alternate season one right where the the shadows had come to babylon five and we're destroying everything um again we talked about this during the reaction for audio listeners i want to make sure we get it in here there was something very weird about that though that's right because this is an alternate timeline in season one in which the shadows come to babylon five right and we we say season one i mean i don't know when that actually could have been um sinclair could have stayed the commander in that reality of babylon five for a very long time but well we know it's short shorter hair so exactly and i think it was the year 2020 2257 i think when that happened we know it was that because we saw it happen in season one babylon squared like it took a real moment that we we know to have happened right but that moment that they saw in babylon squared could have been from a future could have been from the alternate timelines future okay yeah because i remember they had 10 days like it was 10 days from if we don't oh you're right never mind okay so take out what i just said you're right you're right so wow but but anyway on that on that ship.

[58:53] Alita and Jakar show up all of a sudden and this lead in Jakar were very clearly the leader in Jakar that went off at the end of season five to go gallivanting around the universe absolutely now you can tell me they weren't but that's who they were which the only way that that makes sense is if that leader in Jakar were an alternate leader in Jakar who had come to this alternate timeline we're also traveling through all the stuff yeah yeah or maybe that was our leader in jakar well no because they're gonna blow up so they can't but yeah so it was it was an alternate leader in jakar from a third alternate timeline that had been pulled into this alternate timeline and that's the only way that that makes sense i agree yeah yeah it was nice to see leader still as a badass though right doing stuff and that's the thing that leader that we saw was a post byron Lita yes like that's how we know that it's from there because that's a post Byron Lita she had her bad a stuff going on she had her confidence she was cracking jokes about it that was 100% that she never had priority I liked well also in that um Sinclair we talked about how this was the best Sinclair we've ever seen agreed yes and I think my favorite part about this Sinclair was when he meets Sheridan who's time hopping and he's like tell me who you are you've got 15 seconds or whatever.

[1:00:18] And he's like, I'm from an alternate timeline and we've got to get here and we've got to, he goes, that doesn't matter. That doesn't matter because this is my timeline.

[1:00:27] And this is real to me. This is my real, real timeline. Your, your timeline is the alternate timeline to me. Like that doesn't matter. We've got to take care of this now. And I, I loved the decisiveness, the, the clarity, um, like all of that. I, I loved that coming out of him. for Sinclair.

[1:00:49] Yeah, it makes me... It makes me hungry for what could have been right to have that Sinclair through season. And we got glimpses. Absolutely. We got glimpses of that, but it would have been great to have that character through all of that. But Hey, that timeline is just because how often have we seen a sci-fi episode where we interact with an alternate timeline and we're very okay. Letting that timeline get destroyed or letting that timeline get completely jacked up just for the sake of saving our own timeline. And what this says is no, no, that timeline is just as valid and legitimate and deserving of protection as ours a lot of it and i'm we won't go into detail because i know i don't want to give you any spoilers but like that comes up in season five of lower decks there's a point where they're like some of their you know another version of the cerritos comes up and like we have to save the prime universe and like well we're the prime universe no i'm the prime universe back and forth and actually in a real way i'll just say much of the plot of this movie is also the plot of the fifth season of lower decks, okay so i'll just give you that piece i'm like episode two or three into lower decks i was kind of saving it so i could just binge it all once it once it came out so which is a good way to do those things but right yeah when we got especially when we started figuring out the whole like uh you know the quantum realities of this and that the traveling through stuff was eventually going to lead to the destruction of everything i was just like i literally just watched this seen on Lower Decks.

[1:02:14] Wow. Which came out after this, by the way. So just to be clear. There you go.

[1:02:18] Star Trek ripping off Babylon five yet again, unimaginable, unbelievable. So the, the, the story science of what, of what forced this whole thing, I found to be very interesting. So Sheridan old Sheridan having in his past become unstuck in time during the world war without end incident made him left him susceptible to tacky on energy. Yes. Would kind of screw around with him as he gets older. He encounters this tachyon energy from the Minbari energy plant that just came online, and he gets knocked out of time. He gets unstuck in time now as an older man. But turns out, because of the way all that works, that is actually the event that unstuck him in time during the War Without End, which we never knew why that happened in the first place. And so what we, what we have here, and I love this, what we have is an effect preceding a cause, which is something that Dr. Sam Carter talks about in Stargate quite a few times. Exactly. You know, but it's, it's the effect preceding the cause. I, I, I love that. And again, it goes to my whole thing that time is a closed sphere and all points are happening at the same time. So, um, I love that, like that tracks with everything. It does not, that loop is not a paradox to me. It works a hundred percent of the time. I love it. Love it.

[1:03:43] And I got to say, you are famously, um, anti time travel stuff.

[1:03:51] No, I'm anti changing time, time travel stuff, which is what time travel TV is all about. I know you can't do it because it's be so boring. of like, well, we don't have to do anything because we can't change the past, even if we tried. So we were always here in every iteration of this. So let's just see what happens. That's why I think it's a big deal that like, especially when, uh, pseudo Jakar or whatever was breaking stuff down, you were just like, yeah, like either, either. Yes, that makes sense. Or that may not necessarily make sense, but there's nothing that disproves it. So, okay. It impressed you. And that's a big deal. Sure. Sure.

[1:04:30] Um i have a final note okay which is just possibly my favorite part of the whole movie yeah yeah because jeff what have i always said if you can make me laugh you've won me over and the best part was zathras and sheridan walking down the time and he's like yes you have become, unstuck in time and or lost in time and sheridan turns around and goes and lost and and zathras goes no no no even here copyright is a very big deal can't say lost in space this is so great that was such a great the only thing that would have made that better is if it was lanier who said that fair fair not the copyright part right zaffer's doing it but he should if he had the shared in line that would have been saying the lost in space yeah yeah yeah that would have been great that was that was it i mean we had to pause the video for a moment just to collect ourselves, I don't know why that hit me as so funny. I snorted. I was laughing. You snorted so bad. I hope, Jeff, I hope that people who have seen this movie before now, who just sort of rolled over that part and didn't really start, didn't think it was that funny, watched it with us and now appreciate it on a whole new level. I really hope. Like, hey, this movie is amazing, actually. It's so good. Right. Watching it with Jeff and Brent was so much better than watching it by myself. So I hope that's the case.

[1:05:52] We're like that. Jeff, do you have any other notes you want to get into on this? I have a lot of just little observation notes or things like that, but I don't think anything really worth discussing. I think the one thing that stood out to me that I really enjoyed, just because it's recency bias, but we watched The Lost Tales last week, and one of the best parts of that was him and Dr. Frazier doing the ISN thing, and he was just awful about, like, I hate you, and I hate all this dumb stuff I have to do as president, and seeing that mirrored here, I think it was just really good character continuity and done very well. His whole, no, it's fine. I love opening shopping malls. Mm-hmm. I thought that was pretty great, but no, this was, this was good. I like, I just really appreciated this for its character. A lot of its character stuff. And I think that's a part of what you're supposed to appreciate about this film. Absolutely. You know? Um, yeah, yeah. I think that's what you're so anyway, Jeff, with that, then I think we have reached the part where we do the thing.

[1:06:54] We do the thing that you and I have done for a hundred, let's hear 111, 111, 110. It was 110 plus how many movies, seven movies, seven. So it's 117 okay 117 13 episodes of 130 crusade yeah 130 episodes so for 130 episodes for the 130th time jeff did you pull any messages out of the road home i think the big message is that we need to learn more about quantum physics no no no you know i pulled out a lot of little ones that are there and whatever but like this it had two messages and it had the two messages that i think are that pervade all science fiction the big one is why just why you know and when you explore the why when you're curious about the why of anything that's where you get to the stuff like that's the big important thing right and the other big message that we see so often in science fiction and so many other forms of storytelling is that destruction is easy. Hate is easy. But love is the most powerful force in the galaxy because all you need is love.

[1:08:17] Exactly. Yep. Yeah, I mean, I think that was the whole point of this movie was love is what connects us to the things that are important to us. And it's love is the thing that will bring us back to what's important to us. And I think now that I say that, I think that backs up my theory that this is, JMS's love for what he created because he came back to it. It brought him back. It was his road home. Then I pulled out a couple other little ones. Perspective changes everything, right? When you talked about, oh, I grew taller than the corn, even though the corn's taller than me now.

[1:08:56] Early summer corn is what it was early summer exactly you know if no one sees it if there's no meaning does it even actually exist right i think the the message they were trying to really hit us over the head with was um the observer affects the observed.

[1:09:16] Message received i don't think that was a message i think that was uh, a scientific thing that got latched onto and we're going to build everything else off that one idea, however we don't necessarily understand that idea correctly but that's okay i read this in an article i thought it was pretty cool i'm gonna i'm gonna write a movie about it right right did you find any other messages or did you want to dive into any well i well i had two and you kind of hit both of them but i'll go with you the perspective changes everything which literally is what the rest of it was about like outside of i stopped looking once i got tall but perspective changes everything. It's literally the observer affects the observed and it, you know, how, how that, how you, I don't, I don't even know. I don't know. But your perspective does change everything. I love the idea. He's getting himself lost just to prove that he could get out until he got taller than to see over the corn. And then he didn't have to get lost anymore. I don't have, I don't have to go through that silliness anymore because now I can, I've risen above it, but the biggest one, and, and I'll take, I want to take what you said about love and i just want to encapsulate it in terms of the film yeah love is the greatest anchor of all and love transcends time and space that's all i got there you go.

[1:10:34] Oh brent i love this part of the show we're about to dive into and this part might exist in some form for us in the in an alternate reality or the future we'll find out but this is us creating the definitive ranking, the objectively correct ranking of all of the movies within the Babylon 5 proper.

[1:10:54] This is the final one, the eighth film for us. When you rank this, we will have created the definitive list. And I'm curious where you're going to put it. That is immutable, except for that one time we might mute it. Exactly. But only we can mute it. Mutate it. Yeah. Mutable-ize it. Mm-hmm. Something. Our top five, Brent, starting from number five, River of Souls. Third space in number four, A Call to Arms. In the beginning in the number two spot, and a resounding number one from us from last week, the lost tales brent you have the final duty here the massive responsibility where does the road home land it's so hard for me not to apply recency bias because i just had so much fun with this film i enjoyed this film you know but i think when i look at the thing um try to give let this one stand on its own two feet right and how do the others stand on their own two feet and i think lost tails is going to stay as number one. So does this become number two? Does it become number three? I do. I, I like this better than I did call to arms. Okay. So it's either going to be number two or number three. And in the beginning is going to fall to number three or stay at number two. And here's the thing. I compare this to in the beginning and what happened in, in the beginning, in the beginning took us back and filled in a lot of question marks that we didn't know.

[1:12:15] It interacted with stuff that was already there and fleshed things out a lot more. And it did a little bit in the same thing that the road home did. We go back and we interact with, with where we were. Now road home spent more time in alternate realities than it did in, in the prime reality. But still, I think in the beginning did it better. I think in the beginning was more satisfying. Does that make sense? Because it was within the canon of what happened. And it didn't, it didn't Kelvin the, the Babylon five universe, the way that road home did. It just fleshed it out. It did. Yeah. And it, and it kept it with, it stayed within the confines of established lore and established things. So to me, I'm going to say in the beginning, based on that alone in the beginning is going to sit higher than road home. So this is going to be our new number three and it's going to push call to arms down third space down and river of souls is gonna fall off the top five and that's okay.

[1:13:11] That is okay. But I find fascinating, not about necessarily just the ranking, but that number two and three in the beginning in the road home. And then if we add that to our other season rankings that happened, the most pivotal moment in all of Babylon five was the trilogy of Babylon squared war without end one and two. Because in the beginning happened in the space of war without end, right? There's this other stuff that was going on. And then this was the piece that made so much of that happen. And we saw Babylon squared, the other piece. That is the pole in the tent. We can sit here all day.

[1:13:50] I'm talking about severed dreams, you know, and all the, all the other incredible episodes out there, but those three episodes are Babylon five and I'm okay with that. It's not a bad set of episodes, man. Nope. What it's, it just shows how rich they are. They can create this much more content, you know, connected to it. God, it was, it was just brilliant. Yeah.

[1:14:10] You know, Jeff, before we go, our friend Ben over in the chat, uh, who's watching hello to our council chambers who are over there he says this about this and i think this will cap it we'll put a cap on this whole thing avon of his line at the end sorry for the way sorry for the delay life got in the way felt like jms apologizing to the fans for how long it's taken to get this out uh and to and i will continue that with what he what she said afterwards we're back online and we're here to stay yeah jeff i know you don't want a babylon 5 reboot i don't i don't know that we need a reboot but i know i want more babylon 5 i want more here and i want it to be here to stay and so whatever's going on in hollywood whatever's going on in tv get your figured out and let's get get back to some good writing that jms has planned for this and let's let's make it happen let's do it that's my final word on Babylon 5. There it is. Let's do it. I think that's it. What did they say? Let's go. Let's go. Hit it. And Brent, let's go. Pass the road home. We're closing it out.

[1:15:21] And this is normally where we would play our game, guessing what's going to come up next week. But you know what? You know what I'm going to do? Let's do this. We play the game where we guess what the next episode is going to be about.

[1:15:35] Viewers, listeners, I want you to guess what's going to happen in next week's episode, because next week we're going to wrap up the entirety of Babylon 5. We're going to talk about the episodes, the movies, the crusade about all the stuff, the interconnectivities and everything about, we don't even know what we haven't talked about. We're going to talk about it yet, but all those things. So if you're on YouTube, make some comments down there. If you're listening to us on a podcasting app, there's a link in the show notes that lets you, I think it says you can text us or whatever. We also have an email there. We're also on the social media, but what do you think we're going to talk about? What do you think we're going to like? What do you think we're going to say we were wrong about or whatever? I'm you get to guess what are the things that stood out to us the most? Cause that's certainly what we're going to be diving into.

[1:16:29] Yeah. I can't wait. I can't wait to read the things that you think we will, we'll talk about and what we'll think and do. It's going to be a lot of fun and we'll get to do a lot of that right here next week, right? We're done here. We're done finito. I, this is where we always wrap up and I say, thank you, but I honestly want to stop and just like, there are, a number of you, we just said 130 episodes, but then we had our, you know, our wrap ups and stuff like that. So let's just say 135 episodes and many of those well over an hour. So many of you have spent all of that time with us. Some from close to the beginning, some crammed it all into a couple of weeks and some superhuman feet. I don't have the words to express just how, Oh, I'm getting and emotional how much it means to me that you all did that. You know, uh, Brent, we started this whole thing on a lark. It was just dumb project. We were going to like, let's, you know, Hey, let's watch Babylon five and talk about it. Let's doc. It while we were trying to do is just let's document it. Let's document a journey. That's all we were trying to do. 110 episodes and we're out. Let's give ourselves an excuse to keep watching this thing because we got to show up and record every week. And then all of you showed up and, uh.

[1:17:43] It never, I am, I am going to cry. It never, it never stops blowing me away that we've met so many of you and that you're here with us as we watch this show and talk about it. And so just thank, thank you. Yeah. Thank you for being here with us through all of it. It literally means the world. We would not be here if it wasn't for you guys. Exactly. We wouldn't wait.

[1:18:07] We might not have made it 110 episodes if it wasn't for you guys. Exactly. And, and, uh, we certainly wouldn't continue going if it wasn't for you guys. Um, all of you on YouTube, all of you on the podcasting apps out there, all of you on Patreon. Um, yeah, we wouldn't be here. Jeff, so much life has happened in the last, what's it been now? Two and a half years, three years almost. Yeah. Almost three years. It'll be three years in May for us. Yeah. So, um, so much of life has happened. You guys have shared your lives with us jeff think of all the emails we've gotten of people sharing deeply personal things yes literally marriages restored through the through not you and me but just just this thing yeah that all and by all of this it's guys the community baby stuff everything people have passed and gone beyond the rim my father being one of them you know uh like huge life changes happening entire construction projects right like neither you nor me nor our homes are the same as they were when we started oh they're not and we're all here together and we've done it together and you know what in the words of Ivanova, we're back online and we're here to stay.

[1:19:35] Music.